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	<title>Comments on: Why a Copernican Revolution Is Needed in Climate Change Research</title>
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	<link>http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456</link>
	<description>Applications of economics and science for rational public policy by Alan Carlin</description>
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		<title>By: Carlin Economics and Science &#187; Very Interesting New Paper on Astronomical Climatology</title>
		<link>http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456/comment-page-1#comment-93099</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlin Economics and Science &#187; Very Interesting New Paper on Astronomical Climatology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carlineconomics.com/?p=1456#comment-93099</guid>
		<description>[...] In brief, Earth&#8217;s climate can be explained by solar cycles of 983, 115, 61, and 130 years. Scafetta&#8217;s hindcast is spectacular. Scafetta&#8217;s paper represents the most sophisticated effort that I know of to explain Earth&#8217;s climatic changes in terms of observationally-based science. Unlike AGW-based climatology it actually contributes to our understanding of this important topic, and in my view represents the beginning of the Copernican revolution in climate science that I recently advocated. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In brief, Earth&#8217;s climate can be explained by solar cycles of 983, 115, 61, and 130 years. Scafetta&#8217;s hindcast is spectacular. Scafetta&#8217;s paper represents the most sophisticated effort that I know of to explain Earth&#8217;s climatic changes in terms of observationally-based science. Unlike AGW-based climatology it actually contributes to our understanding of this important topic, and in my view represents the beginning of the Copernican revolution in climate science that I recently advocated. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Cotton</title>
		<link>http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456/comment-page-1#comment-89803</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Cotton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 23:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carlineconomics.com/?p=1456#comment-89803</guid>
		<description>We sure need a revolution in climate ....

Climatologists love to talk about energy being trapped by carbon dioxide and thus not exiting at the top of the atmosphere (TOA.)

It is &lt;i&gt;nowhere&lt;/i&gt; near as simple as that.  All the radiation gets to space sooner or later.  Carbon dioxide just scatters it on its way so you don&#039;t see radiation in those bandwidths at TOA.  The energy still gets out, and you have no proof that it doesn&#039;t, because you don&#039;t have the necessary simultaneous measurements made all over the world.

In the hemisphere that is cooling at night there is &lt;i&gt;far more&lt;/i&gt; getting out, whereas in the hemisphere in the sunlight there is far more coming in.  This is obvious.

When I placed a wide necked vacuum flask filled with water in the sun yesterday (with the lid off) the temperature of the water rose from 19.5 deg.C at 5:08am to 29.1 deg.C at 1:53pm while the air around it rose from 19.0 to 31.9 deg.C.   

What did the backradiation do at night?  Well from 9:15pm till 12:05am the water cooled from 24.2 deg.C to 23.4 deg.C while the air cooled from 24.2 deg.C to 22.7 deg.C.

According to those energy diagrams the backradiation, even at night, is about half the solar radiation during the day.  Well, maybe it is, but it does not have anything like half the effect on the temperature as you can confirm in your own backyard.

This is because, when radiation from a cooler atmosphere strikes a warmer surface it undergoes &quot;resonant scattering&quot; (sometimes called pseudo-scattering) and this means its energy is not converted to thermal energy.  This is the reason that heat does not transfer from cold to hot.  If it did the universe would go crazy.

&lt;b&gt;When opposing radiation is scattered, its own energy replaces energy which the warmer body would have radiated from its own thermal energy supply.&lt;/b&gt;  

You can imagine it as if you are just about to pay for fuel at a gas station when a friend travelling with you offers you cash for the right amount.  It&#039;s quicker and easier for you to just pay with the cash, rather than going through the longer process of using a credit card to pay from your own account.  So it is with radiation.  The warmer body cools more slowly as a result because a ready source of energy from incident radiation is quicker to just &quot;reflect&quot; back into the atmosphere, rather than have to convert its own thermal energy to radiated energy.

The ramifications are this:  

Not all radiation from the atmosphere is the same.  That from cooler regions has less effect.  Also, that with fewer frequencies under its Planck curve has less effect again.  

&lt;b&gt;Each carbon dioxide molecule thus has far less effect than each water vapour molecule because the latter can radiate with more frequencies which &quot;oppose&quot; the frequencies being emitted by the surface, especially the oceans.&lt;/b&gt;  

&lt;b&gt;Furthermore, it is only the radiative cooling process of the surface which is slowed down.  There are other processes like evaporative cooling and diffusion followed by convection which cannot be affected by backradiation, and which will tend to compensate for any slowing of the radiation.&lt;/b&gt; 

This is why, at night, the water in the flask cools nearly as fast as the air around it.  The net effect on the rate of cooling is totally negligible.  

&lt;b&gt;The backradiation does not affect temperatures anywhere near as much as solar radiation, even though its &quot;W/m^2&quot; is probably about half as much.&lt;/b&gt;  

And there are other reasons also why it all balances out and climate follows natural cycles without any anthropogenic effect.  This is explained in detail in my peer-reviewed publication now being further reviewed by dozens of scientists.

http://principia-scientific.org/publications/psi_radiated_energy.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We sure need a revolution in climate &#8230;.</p>
<p>Climatologists love to talk about energy being trapped by carbon dioxide and thus not exiting at the top of the atmosphere (TOA.)</p>
<p>It is <i>nowhere</i> near as simple as that.  All the radiation gets to space sooner or later.  Carbon dioxide just scatters it on its way so you don&#8217;t see radiation in those bandwidths at TOA.  The energy still gets out, and you have no proof that it doesn&#8217;t, because you don&#8217;t have the necessary simultaneous measurements made all over the world.</p>
<p>In the hemisphere that is cooling at night there is <i>far more</i> getting out, whereas in the hemisphere in the sunlight there is far more coming in.  This is obvious.</p>
<p>When I placed a wide necked vacuum flask filled with water in the sun yesterday (with the lid off) the temperature of the water rose from 19.5 deg.C at 5:08am to 29.1 deg.C at 1:53pm while the air around it rose from 19.0 to 31.9 deg.C.   </p>
<p>What did the backradiation do at night?  Well from 9:15pm till 12:05am the water cooled from 24.2 deg.C to 23.4 deg.C while the air cooled from 24.2 deg.C to 22.7 deg.C.</p>
<p>According to those energy diagrams the backradiation, even at night, is about half the solar radiation during the day.  Well, maybe it is, but it does not have anything like half the effect on the temperature as you can confirm in your own backyard.</p>
<p>This is because, when radiation from a cooler atmosphere strikes a warmer surface it undergoes &#8220;resonant scattering&#8221; (sometimes called pseudo-scattering) and this means its energy is not converted to thermal energy.  This is the reason that heat does not transfer from cold to hot.  If it did the universe would go crazy.</p>
<p><b>When opposing radiation is scattered, its own energy replaces energy which the warmer body would have radiated from its own thermal energy supply.</b>  </p>
<p>You can imagine it as if you are just about to pay for fuel at a gas station when a friend travelling with you offers you cash for the right amount.  It&#8217;s quicker and easier for you to just pay with the cash, rather than going through the longer process of using a credit card to pay from your own account.  So it is with radiation.  The warmer body cools more slowly as a result because a ready source of energy from incident radiation is quicker to just &#8220;reflect&#8221; back into the atmosphere, rather than have to convert its own thermal energy to radiated energy.</p>
<p>The ramifications are this:  </p>
<p>Not all radiation from the atmosphere is the same.  That from cooler regions has less effect.  Also, that with fewer frequencies under its Planck curve has less effect again.  </p>
<p><b>Each carbon dioxide molecule thus has far less effect than each water vapour molecule because the latter can radiate with more frequencies which &#8220;oppose&#8221; the frequencies being emitted by the surface, especially the oceans.</b>  </p>
<p><b>Furthermore, it is only the radiative cooling process of the surface which is slowed down.  There are other processes like evaporative cooling and diffusion followed by convection which cannot be affected by backradiation, and which will tend to compensate for any slowing of the radiation.</b> </p>
<p>This is why, at night, the water in the flask cools nearly as fast as the air around it.  The net effect on the rate of cooling is totally negligible.  </p>
<p><b>The backradiation does not affect temperatures anywhere near as much as solar radiation, even though its &#8220;W/m^2&#8243; is probably about half as much.</b>  </p>
<p>And there are other reasons also why it all balances out and climate follows natural cycles without any anthropogenic effect.  This is explained in detail in my peer-reviewed publication now being further reviewed by dozens of scientists.</p>
<p><a href="http://principia-scientific.org/publications/psi_radiated_energy.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://principia-scientific.org/publications/psi_radiated_energy.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Doug Cotton</title>
		<link>http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456/comment-page-1#comment-88715</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Cotton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 10:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carlineconomics.com/?p=1456#comment-88715</guid>
		<description>Within about 24 hours there will be a new paper &lt;i&gt;Radiated Energy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics&lt;/i&gt; at http://principia-scientific.org/

In over 6,000 words it covers a wide range of reasons why carbon dioxide can have no warming effect and only a slight cooling effect.

This is only the sixth paper to be accepted by this organisation which is dedicated to the truth in science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Within about 24 hours there will be a new paper <i>Radiated Energy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics</i> at <a href="http://principia-scientific.org/" rel="nofollow">http://principia-scientific.org/</a></p>
<p>In over 6,000 words it covers a wide range of reasons why carbon dioxide can have no warming effect and only a slight cooling effect.</p>
<p>This is only the sixth paper to be accepted by this organisation which is dedicated to the truth in science.</p>
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		<title>By: Joachim Seifert</title>
		<link>http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456/comment-page-1#comment-77356</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim Seifert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carlineconomics.com/?p=1456#comment-77356</guid>
		<description>This comment hits the spot......the astronomical side was &quot;neglected&quot; by the IPCC.....
Neglected? No, but on purpose kept under the table, in order that any resulting RF, which
 occurs due to astronomical (orbital and 3-body-planetary) movements is given 
to atmospheric physics, CO2 and AGW..... The LA-meeting of AR4-wg1 in 2006 agreed to &quot;assume the orbital forcing to be &#039;invariant&#039; &quot; and great HAPPINESS broke out.... (Email of one participant)..... Invariant = neglectible on less than millenium scale... (AR4-wg1-chapt 2). 
They all knew there is substantial astronomical RF and agreed to collude.....to hide it....
       The evidence/proof  of this: See AR4-wg1-chapter 9 of Mrs.Hegerl: The astronomical side
       is referred to with &quot;Goosse et al, 2005&quot; in which the Earth&#039;s orbit is modelled by simplistic
       Keplerian parameters of  Berger, A. 1978 !! , which, according to the NASA JPL is only 
       good enough for high school standards but &quot;not for professional use&quot; (JPL Horizons)
Goosse et  al knew they hide orbital forcing.....

Scafetta is on the right trail and others (including me) will lift the cover ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment hits the spot&#8230;&#8230;the astronomical side was &#8220;neglected&#8221; by the IPCC&#8230;..<br />
Neglected? No, but on purpose kept under the table, in order that any resulting RF, which<br />
 occurs due to astronomical (orbital and 3-body-planetary) movements is given<br />
to atmospheric physics, CO2 and AGW&#8230;.. The LA-meeting of AR4-wg1 in 2006 agreed to &#8220;assume the orbital forcing to be &#8216;invariant&#8217; &#8221; and great HAPPINESS broke out&#8230;. (Email of one participant)&#8230;.. Invariant = neglectible on less than millenium scale&#8230; (AR4-wg1-chapt 2).<br />
They all knew there is substantial astronomical RF and agreed to collude&#8230;..to hide it&#8230;.<br />
       The evidence/proof  of this: See AR4-wg1-chapter 9 of Mrs.Hegerl: The astronomical side<br />
       is referred to with &#8220;Goosse et al, 2005&#8243; in which the Earth&#8217;s orbit is modelled by simplistic<br />
       Keplerian parameters of  Berger, A. 1978 !! , which, according to the NASA JPL is only<br />
       good enough for high school standards but &#8220;not for professional use&#8221; (JPL Horizons)<br />
Goosse et  al knew they hide orbital forcing&#8230;..</p>
<p>Scafetta is on the right trail and others (including me) will lift the cover &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Scaffeta on his latest paper: Harmonic climate model versus the IPCC general circulation climate models &#124; TaJnB &#124; TheAverageJoeNewsBlogg</title>
		<link>http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456/comment-page-1#comment-76115</link>
		<dc:creator>Scaffeta on his latest paper: Harmonic climate model versus the IPCC general circulation climate models &#124; TaJnB &#124; TheAverageJoeNewsBlogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carlineconomics.com/?p=1456#comment-76115</guid>
		<description>[...] So, is a kind of Copernican Revolution needed in climate change research, as Alan Carlin has also suggested? http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So, is a kind of Copernican Revolution needed in climate change research, as Alan Carlin has also suggested? <a href="http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456" rel="nofollow">http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scaffeta on his latest paper: Harmonic climate model versus the IPCC general circulation climate models &#124; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456/comment-page-1#comment-76101</link>
		<dc:creator>Scaffeta on his latest paper: Harmonic climate model versus the IPCC general circulation climate models &#124; Watts Up With That?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 14:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carlineconomics.com/?p=1456#comment-76101</guid>
		<description>[...] So, is a kind of Copernican Revolution needed in climate change research, as Alan Carlin has also suggested? http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So, is a kind of Copernican Revolution needed in climate change research, as Alan Carlin has also suggested? <a href="http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456" rel="nofollow">http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/1456</a> [...]</p>
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